Re-evaluation of John Titor Predictions – A Decade Off?

Below I have included lots of background information about John Titor; If you’re looking for the new 2020 examination of John Titor predictions please start after the background information. I think he was semi-correct in this predictions; he either intentionally lied about the dates or the timeline has shifted. Please read the background information if you have no idea about John Titor:

Background Information:

John Titor is a name used on several bulletin boards during 2000 and 2001 by a poster claiming to be an American military time traveler from 2036. Titor made numerous vague and specific predictions regarding calamitous events in 2004 and beyond

In these posts Titor made numerous predictions (a number of them vague, some quite specific) about events in the near future, starting with events in 2004. However, as of 2013, these events have not taken place; he described a drastically changed future in which the United States had broken into five smaller regions, the environment and infrastructure had been devastated by a nuclear attack, and most other world powers had been destroyed.

To date, the story has been retold on numerous web sites, in a book, in a play, and the Japanese visual novel/anime Steins;Gate. Titor has also been discussed occasionally on the radio show Coast to Coast AM.

Subsequent closer examination of Titor’s assertions provoked widespread skepticism. Inconsistencies in his explanations, the uniform inaccuracy of his predictions, and a private investigator’s findings all led to the general impression that the entire episode was an elaborate hoax. A 2009 investigation concluded that Titor was likely the creation of Larry Haber, a Florida entertainment lawyer, along with his brother Morey, a computer scientist.

The first posts using John Titor’s military symbol appeared on the Time Travel Institute forums on November 2, 2000, under the name TimeTravel_0. At that time the name “John Titor” was not being used. The posts discussed time travel in general, the first one being the “six parts” description of what a time machine would need to have to work and responses to questions about how such a machine would work. Early messages tended to be short. A second thread was also made due to shortcomings in the forum software at the time.

In his online postings, Titor claimed to be an American soldier from 2036, based in Tampa, Florida. He was assigned to a governmental time-travel project, and sent back to 1975 to retrieve an IBM 5100 computer, which he said was needed to debug various legacy computer programs in 2036 – a possible reference to the UNIX year 2038 problem. The IBM 5100 runs the APL and BASIC programming languages.

Titor said he had been selected for this mission specifically, given that his paternal grandfather was directly involved with the assembly and programming of the 5100. In support of this, he described unpublicized features of the 5100, leading to assumptions that a computer scientist was behind the postings. Titor claimed to be on a stopover in the year 2000 for “personal reasons”, to collect pictures lost in the (future) civil war and to visit his family, of whom he spoke about often.

Titor also said he had been, for a few months, trying to alert anyone that would listen about the threat of Creutzfeldt–Jakob disease spread through beef products and about the possibility of civil war within the United States. When questioned about them by an online subscriber, Titor also expressed an interest in mysteries such as UFOs, which he claimed remained unexplained in his time. Titor suggested that UFOs and extraterrestrials might be travelers from much further into the future than his own time, with superior time machines.

The Titor posts ended in late March 2001. Eventually, a number of the threads became corrupted; but Titor’s posts had been saved on subscribers’ hard drives and were copied to, along with new discussions of the science behind Titor’s time travelling as well as his predictions. Around 2003, various websites reproduced Titor’s posts, re-arranging them into narratives. Not all refer to the original dates posted.

Now To 2020: Was John Titor just off by a decade?

I am sceptic regarding John Titor, but let’s assume he was really a time traveler and his timeline changed which caused his predictions to be a decade off. I include the original dates of prediction and it had me thinking about this after Covid started. These are in no order.

Let’s start with Nov. 8, 2000, where Pamela posts her questions to John Titor and his answers.

pamela: 2. what kind of jobs do people do and do they still work long hours? whats the majority of job types in the future?

timetravel_0: Life is much more rural in the future but “high” technology is used to communicate and travel. People raise a great deal of their own food and do more “farm” work. Yes, compared to now, we do work long hours. After the war, my father made a living selling oranges up and down the West coast of Florida. My closest friend raises horses and another works for a company that maintains “wireless” internet nodes.

Notice the line about “wireless” internet nodes. 5G is about to hit the USA, and this could be what is referenced in the John Titor predictions.

pamela: 12. what new inventions do we have to look forward to?

timetravel_0: Hmmm….I hesitate to answer but I’ll give a bit. Hydrogen fuel cells and more efficient solar cells are big deals. Computer technology and software gets MUCH better.

Fuel Cells? Alternative Energy ? Still waiting on that! Don’t Hold your breath on this prediction by Titor, I give him the credit with the phone internet service idea:

pamela: 16. do you still have telephones? what is your major source of energy that you use? solar power? electricity? have you discovered new energies.

timetravel_0: Yes we have phones but the service is through the web. Most power generation is localized. It amazes me how much power is wasted now. Yes, solar is big. There is thought that a singularity generator could also be used but most people are against it.

Next, Dec. 7, 2000, this I find the most interesting.

(What is the entertainment industry like, movies, tv, radio, internet?)

Again, entertainment is less centralized. There are “movies” and “tv” but everything is distributed over the net and more people produce their own “shows”.

In the past few months, many studios have released new movies on the internet due to covid restrictions. Nextflix, Amazon, Apple all have scripted TV shows. And the part about people making there own shows? Youtube was started in 2005! And could this be the end of Hollywood?

2001 > 2010 = The basics for time travel start at CERN in about a year (posted in 2000) and end in 2034 (this is 2044) with the first “time machine” built by GE.

Not 2010, but in 2012 John Titor prediction would almost come true: Although the article is deleted; the two physicists claim that the Higgs Boson would be discovered and will most certainty cause a ripple in time. There isn’t any clear evidence that CERN would have found anything which enables time travel a decade from 2001.

Are the Olympics still being played in the future? – 2004 -> 2014 = As a result of the many conflicts, no, there were no official Olympics after 2004. However, it appears they may be revived in 2040.

The 2014 Olympics weren’t cancelled:

Some people think this refers to the 2020 olympics which were postponed due to Covid19, but than again it is much more than a decade off.

I think the cancelling of the official Olympics is something which only happened in John’s Titors timeline?

2004 -> 2014 = The civil war in the United States will start in 2004. I would describe it as having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse. The conflict will consume everyone in the US by 2012 and end in 2015 with a very short WWIII.

There has been no civil war which happened yet since 2014. Some people think the current unstable political climate in the US; which could result in a domestic civil war/racial war and this seems to be something which a majority of Americans think. The problem once again is that this was another prediction a decade off. We need to look at what the rest of 2020 will bring, but the very short World War 3 will probably not be in 2025 either if 2014 was off as well.

2005 -> 2015 = There is a civil war in the United States that starts in 2005 (2015). That conflict flares up and down for 10 years. In 2015 (2025), Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States, China and Europe. The United States counter attacks. The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)…thus we won. The European Union and China were also destroyed. Russia is now our largest trading partner and the Capitol of the US was moved to Omaha Nebraska.

Although tensions did rise under Trump’s presidency but nothing has happened yet.

How and why do the Arabs Jews become entangled in the civil war of the U.S.A? 2005 -> 2015 = They are not directly involved but political situations are dependent on Western stability, which collapses in 2005.

The decline of Western stability was already happening back in 2000, that was common knowledge. But we have to say, under Trump many people see a collapse of Western stability, especially in the fake news corporate media which is reported to happen in years 2016 / 2017. Depends on the interpretation.

2008 -> 2018 = 61. Can anyone tell me how many companies in the United States still manufacture bicycle tires today? Anyone who still has a bike in 2008 will find out.

Absolutely nothing can be found on this prediction, there are still plenty of manufactured bicycles: (We did see a rise of bicycles bought during the Covid pandemic, is John Titor talking about a shortage here?)

2008 -> 2018 = The year 2008 was a general date by which time everyone will realize the normal life they were living in this world was completely over.

Again depends on how you interpret the presidency of Trump, or once again a decade off to say that the covid lockdowns and complete torn of our society and normal life has already happened. Mandatory Masks, Vaccines, No Church Services, Communist take over.. List goes on and on!

2015 -> 2025 = A world war in 2015 (2025) killed nearly three billion people.

Now even with this theory, his predictions were a decade off, with flaws. Of course it’s possible that his timeline has greatly altered due his jumps through timelines. He said when you time-travel you can never come to the same exact time-line, small details are different.

If Titor was real, I think his visit to our timeline either caused an delay in events, or he purposely gave wrong dates in his posts. Maybe he gave wrong dates on purpose to lessen any big changes to our timeline, and things are now happening as they should?

As for Trump, John Titor was referring to “Lincoln type” President. But remember, the Lincoln type President was not a savior. Titor said that President will do even more damage while driving a bigger wedge into the Bill of Rights in an attempt to stop the unrest. What Was Trump Trying to Say About Abraham Lincoln?

The collapse of Western Stability that John Titor spoke about has been slowly happening for some time, but sounds like that collapse sped up when America plunged into a Civil War. He noted that America was turning inward on itself, he also said that gave foreign powers such as Russia and China would have the confidence to expand their territories because America was too busy fighting itself to stop anything. I could definitely see this kind of scenario playing out this decade if things keep going the way they are.

The problem is how vague his predictions were. Another predictions was were the United States broke up into 5 divisions. If the capital city gets moved from Washington DC to Oklahoma in the future I will give it thoughts that John Titor might have been the real time-traveler that he said, he was.

Titor said the United States becoming 5 territories didn’t happen until after the Civil War and WW3 ended. Titor said the change in territory happened so that the United States could balance itself using our natural resources. He also said there was debate in 2036 about changing the American flag from 50 stars to 5 stars. He also said the United States has 5 different Presidents from each region shuffling in and out of office. This was a whole new system created after the war in an attempt to prevent the chaos and corruption we have now that led up to the war.

Outline of Predictions:

Although invoking the many-worlds interpretation of quantum mechanics, whereby events from his timeline may differ from our own, Titor also expressed assurance that the differences were minimal. As such, his descriptions have been interpreted as predictions and compared with historical events since 2001.

The most immediate of Titor’s predictions were of an upcoming civil war in the United States having to do with “order and rights”. He described it as beginning in 2004, with civil unrest surrounding the presidential election of that year. This civil conflict that he characterized as “having a Waco type event every month that steadily gets worse” would be “pretty much at everyone’s doorstep” and erupt by 2008.

Titor claimed that as a 13-year-old in 2011, he joined the Fighting Diamondbacks, a shotgun infantry unit in Florida, for at least four years. In other posts, he described himself as hiding from the war.

As a result of the war, the United States would split into five regions based on various factors and differing military objectives. This civil war, according to Titor, would end in 2015 with a brief but intense World War III:

In 2015, Russia launches a nuclear strike against the major cities in the United States, China, and Europe. The United States counter attacks. The US cities are destroyed along with the AFE (American Federal Empire)… The European Union and China were also destroyed.

Titor refers to the exchange as “N Day”. Washington, D.C. and Jacksonville, Florida are specifically mentioned as being hit. After the war, Omaha, Nebraska would be the new U.S. capital. Titor was vague as to the exact motivations and causes for World War III. At one point, he characterized the hostilities as being led by “border clashes and overpopulation”. He also pointed to the contemporary conflict between Arabs and Israel as not a cause, but rather a milestone that precedes a hypothetical World War III.

Titor claimed that the “Everett–Wheeler model of quantum physics”, better known as the many-worlds interpretation, was correct. According to Titor, this caused a new timestream to form because of his time travel. This gives his predictions the ability to stand up to scrutiny when they fail to pass, since believers can say that the events were averted by Titor’s postings.

The Time Machine:

Titor described the time machine on several occasions. In an early post, he described it as a “stationary mass, temporal displacement unit powered by two top-spin, dual positive singularities”, producing a “standard off-set Tipler sinusoid”. The earliest post was more explicit, saying it contained the following:

  • Two magnetic housing units for the dual micro singularities
  • An electron injection manifold to alter mass and gravity micro singularities
  • A cooling and X-ray venting system
  • Gravity sensors, or a variable gravity lock
  • Four main cesium clocks
  • Three main computer units

According to the posts, the device was installed in the rear of a 1967 Chevrolet Corvette convertible and later moved to a 1987 truck having four-wheel drive.

Titor also shared several scans of the manual of a “C204 Time Displacement Unit” with diagrams and schematics. He also shared some photographs of the device installed in the car.

Titor further claimed that the “Everett–Wheeler model of quantum physics” was correct. This model, better known as the many-worlds interpretation, posits that every possible outcome of a quantum decision actually occurs in a separate “universe”. Titor stated that this was the reason the grandfather paradox would not occur; following the logic of the argument, Titor would be killing a different John Titor’s grandfather in a timeline other than his own.

…The grandfather paradox is impossible. In fact, all paradox is impossible. The Everett–Wheeler–Graham or multiple world theory is correct. All possible quantum states, events, possibilities, and outcomes are real, eventual, and occurring. The chances of everything happening someplace at sometime in the superverse is 100%.

Online Criticism:

The posts were met with skepticism when they were being posted, but it was impossible to prove beforehand that the predicted events would not happen. Because Titor claimed the many-worlds interpretation of quantum physics was correct, effectively meaning that his travel was from a parallel universe and that things could occur differently than he had predicted, the details he presented were unfalsifiable.

One of Titor’s earliest assertions was that CERN would discover the basis for time travel sometime around 2001, with the creation of miniature black holes about half a year after his departure. An article occurring generally around the time he had predicted about miniature black holes being created by CERN was taken by some to be evidence of this claim. Civil war was not even remotely close to breaking out after the 2004 presidential election, with no further conflict in 2008 and 2012 in the way Titor described, although Stephen Hawking mentioned mini black holes hoping to be discovered by CERN “A miniature black hole of the mass of a mountain could generate enough power to supply the world’s energy needs. However, the energy would be difficult to harness as the power could not be maintained in a power station. It would drop through the floor and end up at the center of the Earth.”, “Scientists have searched for miniature black holes but to no avail.

A particularly obvious example involves the Olympics, where of Titor claimed: “As a result of the many conflicts, no, there were no official Olympics after 2004.” The politically uneventful staging of the 2006 Winter Olympics, the 2008 Summer Olympics, the 2010 Winter Olympics, and the 2012 Summer Olympics refute this claim.

Problems with the technology

In the context of the demonstration image provided by John Titor, the laser pointer’s beam being “bent” reveals the obvious inconsistency of objects near the beam not appearing to be bent as well. The framing of the window visible in the background, for instance, should appear distorted in proximity to a large gravity gradient, but it does not. Some have speculated the “beam” is an optical fiber.

Titor claimed that he was sent back to obtain an IBM 5100 because it could translate several types of computer code. According to IBM engineer Bob Dubke, Titor’s statements regarding the IBM 5100’s little-known ability to emulate and debug mainframe systems were correct. Supporters state that this information was not publicly available in 2000 or 2001 when Titor made his declaration, and Titor himself stated that this feature was “discovered” as late as 2036 when Unix, as the underlying source behind all computer operating systems still running local infrastructures and other computational tasks, was only two years away from no longer functioning due to 32-bit integer limitations.

Problems with the story:

Numerous commentators have pointed out the extensive similarities between the Titor story and Pat Frank’s classic post-apocalyptic science fiction novel Alas, Babylon. Among other similarities, Alas, Babylon takes place in a small river-side town in Florida just before and after a nuclear war and describes the struggle to survive as a family in the aftermath. In the book, the protagonist lives in the mythical town of “Fort Repose”, while Titor claimed to live in the “Fort”, formerly the University of Florida (UF).

The internal consistency of Titor’s story has been questioned: for instance, in some posts he claims that money is widely used and people still have credit cards, despite his statement that centralized banking no longer exists. In another posting he speculated that today’s dollar would be usable in his time, but that this would be after the reorganization of the federal government according to his own history, potentially making the currency worthless.

Other problems with the story include inconsistencies in Titor’s comments. His first appearance appears to have been not in 2000, but in the summer of 1998 through two faxes to Art Bell’s radio program Coast to Coast AM. When he began posting the online story, Y2K (January 1, 2000) had come and gone without any real problems. Yet in the 1998 faxes to Art Bell he said, “Y2K is a disaster. Many people freeze to death trying to get to warmer weather. The gov. tries to keep power by instituting marshall law…”

Titor also stated that a part of his mission was to prevent the coming world war by changing history. Yet during an IRC chat in October 2000, a month before he began posting, Titor was asked if the future could be changed from his predictions, and answered “It’s too late… I just wish things didn’t have to happen the way they will.” This stated mission also contradicts his other posts explaining that the multiverse theory is correct, which would make changing history pointless in the context of his own timeline.

Italian TV Inquiry:

An Italian TV program (Voyager – Ai confini della conoscenza) aired an investigation of the John Titor story on May 19, 2008. Mike Lynch, the private detective hired to investigate, found that there were no registry traces, even far in the past, of any John Titor or Titor family. In addition, he discovered that there was a company that was called the John Titor Foundation. The John Titor Foundation is a for-profit Florida LLC that was formed September 16, 2003. It had no office, and it only had a rented post box with the address PMB 237, 7862 W IRLO BRONSON HWY, KISSIMMEE FL 34747; no tapes, recordings, or evidence of Titor were found; and only Larry Haber, the CEO of the John Titor Foundation and an entertainment lawyer in Celebration, Florida, confirmed his existence. Lynch’s conclusion is that John Titor may be John Rick Haber, a computer expert who is Larry Haber’s brother.

Popular Culture:

  • In 2003, the John Titor Foundation published a book, John Titor: A Time Traveler’s Tale (ISBN 1-59196-436-9), discussing his claims; the book is now out of print.
  • In 2004, Time Traveler Zero Zero, a play based on the John Titor story, was staged in the United States.
  • In 2006, John Titor’s “C204 Time Travel Theory” was the subject of a patent application by Marlin B. Pohlman, with the same diagram outlined in John’s original story.
  • The 2009 Japanese visual novel, novel, manga, and anime series, Steins;Gate makes heavy use of the legend of John Titor, the IBM 5100, the fictional organization SERN (based on the real organization CERN), and a character using Titor’s name as a pseudonym.

Our Older John Titor Posts:

An Introduction To The Mysterious Time Traveler; John Titor

The Man Who Told the Internet He’d Come from the Future